Stories & Myths: The JFK Assassination, Vietnam, and Watergate

Learn how the assassination of John F. Kennedy led to nearly 20 years of tumult in the United States, including Vietnam and Watergate on this week's Stories & Myths with Dr. Craig von Buseck.

Watch this week's Stories & Myths here.

Watch previous shows on Craig's YouTube Channel

Order your copy of Victor! The Final Battle of Ulysses S. Grant

Order your copy of Forward! The Leadership Principles of Ulysses S. Grant

More books by Craig von Buseck

Transcript

Good evening. Good afternoon.

Good morning. Wherever you are

tuning in from around the

world. We are so glad to have

you join us here tonight for

Stories and Myths yet another

episode of Stories and Myths.

I'm here with the uh Seafair

and Captain John C. Farrell.

So, John you decided to go with

the nautical theme this week.

Yes. I am that I'm my heart is

with those people who are being

affected with the by the

hurricane. Um oh, that's what

it was exactly. Yeah. It's kind

of your way. authenticity comes

through in a beautiful way. I

want you to know II. I'm glad

you appreciate that and have

noticed that um no. well,

you're always stressing the sea

so I was like, I don't I don't

want to just be boring and put

AC so I spelled it out for you.

I'm kind of like a pirate that

way. I'm stressing the sea

Alright, now, moving on. Yeah.

You know that voice you just

did. Yeah. Let's not revisit

that. You don't like my pirate

voice?

No. Well, it it will come out

when appropriate but for now,

we'll we'll it needs some work.

It needs some work. My pirate

voice needs some work maybe It

sounds like you just woke up

after like a long slumber and

you're you have like a fun on

my ship. The red pearl Yes.

Yeah. So, did you ever get that

fixed? That has the black

pearl? I have the red pearl.

Did you ever get that piece

that I was trying to help you

fix? that piece of on top of

your um of your car? Oh yes, I

fixed it that afternoon. Quite.

it took me all of 25 seconds I

think to finish and it took me

about 10 minutes to do just a

little bit. I have the I have

the pirate hands long of

gathering the jewels. It was a

really, really hot and that's

my. Oh, okay. That must be

it.

Yeah. Alright. What do what do

we have on top for the this

evening's episode of Stories

and Myths? Well, we are going

to talk about JFK and what he

meant to American history and

all the um his assassination

and um his involvement with the

Vietnam War as well as we're

going to

be talking a little bit about

Watergate and um some things

that have happened since then.

So, that's why on this program,

we've talked about the

nineteenth century and last

week, we talked about the

eighteenth century. So, I

thought it would be good for us

to come in to the twentieth

century Uh we're just a little

behind the times. We don't

know. It's it's a show about

history so uh. Right, right.

You never know where we're

going to talk about it. Yeah.

we're not talking about

yesterday.

Now this is uh before before I

were born. so Yes. So what What

is our first question? So, the

first question is um it's about

JFK. You say that he ran for

president If he ran for

president today, he would be

considered a conservative and

that is how much of the country

has shifted to the left. I was

wondering if you could explain

that statement a a little

Kennedy was a cold warrior. Uh

he believed in a strong defense

of the United States. uh

Kennedy. He cut taxes. Um he

believed in um in a strong

space program and he was a very

strong um he's very strong on

free enterprise. So, across the

board, uh Kennedy had positions

that are now considered

conservative that right back

then uh you know he was

considered a centrist or even a

liberal to a certain degree and

by certain members of the

country but today, Uh his

positions are the positions of

more conservative politicians

which shows how the country has

moved politically uh far to the

left Since that time. I believe

that part of the reason is uh

to his assassination which

started a series of uh things

in the country that uh broke

down the trust of the American

people in their own government.

and uh We are now really far

down that road to the point

there is distrust on both the

um both sides of the political

spectrum and it's a major major

problem but Ronald Reagan who

was a Democrat, he was a huge

fan Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Ronald Reagan was a Democrat

for most of his life. Oh, and

what he said in the nineteen

early 1960s. I don't remember

exactly what year that he made

the switch but when people ask

him, why did you switch from

the Democratic Party to

Democratic Party to the

Republican Party? He said, I

didn't leave the Democratic

Party. The Democratic Party

left me and um so today and

even during his presidency,

people called Reagan a far

right conservative uh but

Reagan's policies were not very

different from John F.

Kennedy's policies and they

were only 20 years different

That's what is hard to even

grasp. Uh looking back in

history because it seems like

Kennedy was so far before

Reagan but it was only 20 years

and if you count his

assassination, uh it was only

uh 17 years between uh

Kennedy's assassination and and

uh Reagan's um election uh 2017

and a half but still you know

um you know

it's pretty pretty remarkable.

Uh I take that back. No Exactly

seventeen because Kennedy was

killed in November of 73 or 63

and Reagan was elected in

November, November, 8 eighty.

So, 17 years Exactly. Uh we're

talking a little bit more about

about JFK assassination. So,

what are your thoughts on that?

Was it what was it a conspiracy

theory or um was there a lone

gunman? Well, let me ask you,

what do you think because most

people have an opinion

II. honestly, don't know what

to think II. think kind of like

what we're discussing today

III, think that there was

someone who was definitely

assisted um in the shooting. I

don't know if there was

necessarily more than one

gunman. Um I did read a

fictional retelling of it by

Don Delillo called Libra which

actually um so my my thoughts

on are kind of blurred with the

fictional retelling that Don

Delillo um wrote. It's

great, great novel. Um I read

it in grad school and um so

I've I don't I'm trying to

remember which which of the

facts are that and which of

them is part of the the Libra

book but um II think if there

if there was and I think

there's at least more than one

person involved whether there's

more than one gunman. I'd, I

don't know. Okay. So, my

opinion correct me, what's

that? I said, so, correct me.

Oh, no, no, no. I mean, no one

knows for sure. Right, Right.

Based on, I I've been to the

plaza. I've been to the uh

museum I've seen the snipers

nest there uh in the book

depository, I've stood on the X

uh which Uh pretty much they're

pretty sure that that was the

spot where Kennedy was killed.

I have studied and read about

the Kennedy assassination since

I was in college uh which was a

few years ago now and uh I am

convinced that it was a

conspiracy. I'm convinced that

there were at least two gunmen

and uh there are reasons for

that and I want to I want to

give some of those reasons and

and not just say well this is

my idea. So, First of all, um

there was uh it's pretty clear

that there was a gunman from

the back and most likely it was

Lee Harvey Oswald uh because

the first bullet went through

Kennedy's back and came out his

throat and um it hits uh

Governor Connolly in front of

him and uh they uh I'm sorry

the the the first bullet went

through his throat. The second

one went through his back and

hit Governor Connolly and

and that was considered what

they call the magic bullet but

then the headshot II cannot

believe that the headshot was

from the back and the reason is

that I have heard from almost

and you can can watch this on

YouTube. I've heard from almost

every medical doctor that was

in the emergency room at

Parkland and every single one

of them said the same thing.

They said that it was a fist

sized hole in the back of the

and then down the side of the

head, there was like a valley.

and there's a problem with that

in that the autopsy photos

don't match that and so you

have who's telling the truth Is

it the uh all the medical

doctors who all agreed and have

no reason to lie or is it the

government providing

photographs who possibly have

all kinds of reasons to lie and

There are a lot of things that

don't make sense. Don't add up

and look like conspiracy for

example, no one knows where the

brain of John F Kennedy is. Uh

no one knows. So, why was the

brain removed? Why were we not

able to examine the brain Um

the other major thing and there

are many different uh other

parts to this but without going

on too long, other major thing

that most people uh should

question is why did Jack Ruby

murder Oswald? Because there

was no way that uh Oswald would

be able to testify or give

evidence or led the government

investigators to any kind of

conspiracy. Um uh Ruby was

clearly connected to the Mafia

Uh he was a good old boy that

uh used to kind of uh take care

of the police in his uh very Um

uh there was a lot of

debauchery. Let's say that went

on in Jack Ruby's club uh with

uh dancers and prostitution and

drugs and alcohol and it was a

very seedy place. Why was Jack

Ruby allowed into that basement

of the police station II Don't

buy that. They just didn't have

as tight security back then. I

don't buy that. This was the

the so called murderer of the

president of the United States

and they let this bar owner who

owned a KanCan club just to

walk in to me. I just don't buy

that. It's just too convenient

for this man connected with the

Mafia to shoot and kill uh

Oswald on National TV Live to

shut him up. The other big

question that I have is When

you look the quote unquote

magic bullet which supposedly

some investigator found on one

of the gurney. It is almost

pristine and yet it went

through both Kennedy and

Connolly it hit Connolly Ribs

came out hit went through his

wrist bone and then went down

into his leg. Now, they have

reproduced that again and again

and again and never once have

they been to come up with a

bullet. that wasn't smashed to

hell, right? With all kinds of

bullet fragments all over the

place, right? Um so II think uh

you know, I think that it was a

conspiracy. I do believe that

there were people very high up

in the government who were

involved. I personally believe

that it was a combination of

the CIA and the Mafia because

the CIA Mafia uh in certain

places uh and you know, Whether

it was Italian Mafia, or just

organized crime, they would use

the Mafia to do hit shots to

keep themselves from being

connected to these

assassinations and so this is

something that we know this is

not conjecture. There's

evidence for that and so um

everything that I've heard and

and witnesses that I've heard

say that the plaza is your

classic triangulation that is

used in an assassination. It

was a perfect spot to bring at

least three shooters together.

So, I believe that you probably

had Oswald in the Snipers nest

in the book depository. You

probably had somebody behind

the picket fence on the Grassy

Knoll because immediately and

there's video of this

immediately after the shooting

policemen and a whole crowd of

people went running up that

grassy knoll after something

after someone. Who are they

going after? And you know that

those who believe the um the

Warren Commission report say,

oh, it was just echoes off of

the buildings uh but you know,

you had um they've been running

up the hill to get away from

the shots. Oh no. it was the a

police officer went up on his

motorcycle, laid his motorcycle

down and then kept running up

the the the uh this is all on

Youtube You can watch all these

videos are on Youtube and he

went after somebody and when

they got up there, uh somebody

flashed a badge and said, we're

with Secret Service and the cop

believed him and walked away. I

think they were probably

gunman. They're may very well

have been someone on the

overpass uh and then again,

there's a possibility that they

could have been in one of the

buildings either directly

behind or on the other side but

it was a perfect place to have

multiple shooters and um So,

who knows how that conspiracy

goes but I do believe that it

was a conspiracy and I think

that many people in um in our

country since that time you

know, lost faith. in our

government uh because they

believe that the government

lied that the government killed

the president. the the uh

elected president and that uh

the government has been

covering it up ever since but

the problem is is that in the

1970s a select committee of

congress opened up an

investigation on assassinations

and it didn't just include John

F. Kennedy and also included uh

Martin Luther King and Robert

Kennedy. I think possibly

Malcolm X and some others from

the 1960s but their conclusion

based on uh a recording that

came off of an open mic from

one of the uh motorcycle

officers. They had a sound uh

expert examine that and um

there were four at least four

and maybe five gunshots. Well,

there's no mathematical way

that Oswald could have gotten

off more than three. So if they

are Uh then there is a

conspiracy Now. um missus

Connolly uh she said that she

heard one gunshot then a pause

then another and another one

right on top of it. Well,

that's impossible if it was

just Oswald, he could not have

pumped and got a new uh bullet

into the chamber in that amount

of time and shut it off. So you

know her Her testimony was

ignored. There were dozens of

eyewitnesses in the plaza that

were never interviewed by the

Warren Commission. Now, anybody

with, you know, I have no axe

to grind on this other than I

want the truth and I want to

know that our government is not

lying to us that there wasn't a

you know, with with Lyndon

Johnson waiting in the wings

like like our friend said in

the JFK movie, right? Um I want

to know, I want to know that

our elections have integrity

and that our president isn't

removed by our own government

and so why were those people

who are eyewitnesses in the

plaza? Why did the uh

commission ignore them and

there's no answer that. And uh

and the arrogance that has been

shown not only by the people in

the uh commission but also the

the media. It's almost like the

media wanted to cover it up.

The media never really I'm

talking about the mainstream

media. They never really did in

depth investigations. They kind

of just swallowed the the uh

the Warren Commission hooked

the line and sinker but just

answer the question, why is

there a pic size hole in the

back of his head? You know, one

of the doctors. That's not an

entry word. That's an exit

wound. That's an exit wound,

right? You could not have an

exit wound in the back of the

head. If it was a lone gunman

up in the book deposit deposit,

one of the doctors said that as

he was uh as he came into the

room and was examining him a

large part of the brain fell

out of that hole and onto the

gurney Well, if it's uh an

entry room wound, it's going to

be this size. You can't have a

large part of the brain fall

out of an entry wound. So,

somebody to me is is lying.

Marlene Banks uh says could be

a lone gunman but a

conspiratorial act of more than

just one man. So. Well, that's

what I said. You know, who

knows but to me, there's far

more evidence of a conspiracy

than there is of a single gun

man, right? Um how did the

assassination of JFK? start the

country on the course? The

course of tumult for almost two

decades Well, uh I think it was

uh a series of things. One,

it's a shock. Uh it's a shock

to lose uh a not only your

elected president but also

someone in their 40s who has

two little kids who are running

around the president's knees

and everybody's in love with

this family. and you know, John

F. Kennedy and his wife,

Jacqueline, seemed to be young

and vibrant especially after

you know, you look at several

presidents before them. We're

all doy old men, you know, FDR

Truman to what, you know,

Dwight Eisenhower, they they

were not exactly the jet set,

any of them and all of a sudden

comes this, you know,

Forty-five or how old he was

young man full of Vim and vigor

with a great sense of humor. He

was one of our great

communicators and all of a

sudden like that, he's gone and

not only that but um many

Americans were very grateful

for the way that John Kennedy

handled the the Cuban Missile

crisis and they believe that he

uh most likely kept America

from getting into a war with

the Soviet Union which could

have turned into a nuclear war

could have have turned into

nuclear Holocaust and so Only a

year later, this young man is

gunned down in broad daylight

in front of hundreds of people

and thanks to the it was caught

on the film and so there's a

pretty good uh you know,

everyone pretty much has has

now seen this film or most

people have and so it was a

shock and I think that that

really caused a major shift in

the country but then what

happened is that um while John

F Kennedy was a cold warrior.

He also was a pragmatist and he

had fought in World War two and

he knew how ugly and awful war

can be and so he had allowed

for um for military advisers

from the American military to

be on the ground and to be

helping the South Vietnamese in

their civil war against the

North Viet Cong. the South were

supposedly free. I mean, they

were, they believed in

capitalism whereas the North

Vietnamese were moist

communists who believed in

communism and so, you know,

this was in the middle of the

Cold War when there was the

belief in the domino theory

that one by one, these weaker,

smaller countries would be

taken over. uh first

politically and then militarily

by the communist and I mean

that's what they were doing. So

it's not that it was a theory

of what they were doing but

there was this of containment

that began in Korea and it

actually worked in Korea where

we fought to a stalemate. I

mean, we would have liked to

have won the war and I think

that it had uh someone other

than MacArthur been the

general. We probably would have

won that war but MacArthur

messed it up. Uh so we fought

to a stalemate that is still

there today uh with the North

Korean Communist government,

South Korean capitalist

government and we I think we're

hoping to do the same in

Vietnam but what Is that the

South Vietnamese government was

unbelievably corrupt. and not

only corrupt, they were um they

were blood thirsty and uh they

were not good people and uh so

there was torture that was

going on. There were uh

executions without trial that

were going on. You know, one of

the famous uh famous videos is

of a general and they had just

caught this uh North North

sniper a a fighter and no, they

had just caught him and the

general walks up and with

cameras rolling and you can

again, you can watch this on

YouTube. It's not fun to watch

but you can watch it. He

watched walks up in the broad

daylight in the middle of the

street. Bam shoots this guy and

executes him with no trial or

anything. Wow. John F. Kennedy

was not pleased with how the

South Vietnamese government was

being run and with the

corruption that was happening

and so he actually encouraged a

uh a coup. Uh he thought that

the um that the people who

would take the on the co would

uh just kidnap and remove the

president uh of South Korea or

South Vietnam but

unfortunately, uh they they

killed him and uh Kennedy was

very upset about this but

Kennedy had signaled pretty

strongly that he wanted to get

of Vietnam as soon as he could

and so there was uh there were

a lot of people who believed

that he was not going to send

more troops almost after

Kennedy was assassinated.

Johnson started sending in

troops uh at first uh more

advisers but then very quickly

he started sending in ground

troops and then it was you know

escalation and then they'd get

hit by this the North

Vietnamese and then there was

an escalation they get hit by

the North Vietnamese and it

just accelerating accelerating

until it was a full-fledged

American war. Undeclared war

called a police action to

contain communism but on the

ground, it was a war. Well, if

if Kennedy had stayed alive and

had continued on being our

president, do you think he

would have escalated the

Vietnam War like Johnson did?

No one knows for sure but I

don't believe you based on He

was communicating to his

advisers and to the military.

He was looking for an exit

strategy and now, sometimes

presidents gets pulled into,

you know, uh into things that

uh they don't want to be

involved in but he uh he wanted

to get out and um sadly he was

not able to and we were not

able to. So, the Vietnam War uh

escalated to the point where

the military didn't have enough

men to send because after World

War two, uh the US military

downsized dramatically and so

now, uh Johnson wanted to

increase the number of soldiers

on the ground but he didn't

have enough which then he

turned to the congress and they

passed the conscientious

the Vietnam War there were huge

draft riots and caused a severe

change in our society. Uh where

the combination of Kennedy's

assassination and the possible

cover up and then the

government getting into a an

excuse me, an unpopular war

where a lot of people were

saying, why are we there? I

understand wanting to contain

communism but why does my

eighteen or 19 year old son

need to be drafted and sent to

fight in a war that we really

don't have much skin in and

It's a hard. it was a hard sell

for Johnson to say. Well, we're

trying to fight communism. A

lot of people, mom and pops in

America did not want to send

their their sons uh to to for

that purpose especially in such

a dangerous place. uh because

Vietnam being uh you know very

much covered in jungle. It was

extremely dangerous warfare

with all kinds of booby traps,

all kinds of hidden uh where

the Viet Cong would hide and

then he'd come out in a

surprise attack and they'd mow

down our our uh soldiers and

then they go back into their

tunnels and we never could find

them. It was a very terrible

gorilla gorilla warfare. It was

very much so, I want to read a

comment that Marlene posted.

she um regarding this

Assassination of JFK. She said,

I remember that day like it was

yesterday. I was in school and

my teacher was called out of

the classroom. She came back

and crying school, dismissed

our and we went home to our

shocked parents and all the

television coverage of our

president's Assassination.

School was closed for a few

days. Things were so solemn.

The country was in shock and

mourning even as a child, I

felt a deep sorrow. Yeah, I

can't imagine. Yeah. And um

that I think that reverberate

uh and then when you had the

shock of this unpopular war uh

all of a sudden you started to

have uh society was in a tumult

and there was a of distrust on

all sides and so by 1968, only

4 years after the Kennedy

assassination, uh that was one

of the worst years in American

history. There were riots. uh

there were racial. uh there's a

lot of racial tension. That was

the year that Martin Luther

King Jr. Was shot and killed

and uh that was also the year

in June that John Kennedy's

brother, Bobby Kennedy, was

running for president. He had

promised to deescalate the war

in Vietnam to actually end the

war in Vietnam and uh in Los

Angeles, he was shot and

killed. uh which was another

major shock to America and so

um there was uh uh a lot of

disillusionment and so

ironically, uh the person that

had lost by only a few votes in

1962, John F Kennedy run again

in 1968. uh Richard Nixon. Now,

the interesting thing is he had

run for governor in California

after he lost in the presidency

and he lost in that race for

governor to Governor Brown, the

father of the you know, the

more recent Governor Brown and

um after he that election. He

said in a very bitter way to

the press. He said, well, you

want to have Dick Nixon to kick

around anymore and he went back

to his bunker where he lived in

Whittier, California. and uh

nobody heard from him from him

for a few years but he was

pretty smart and that he could

tell that the country was was

moving in such a direction. uh

that Johnson would probably,

you know, Johnson did win the

election in 1964 against Barry

Goldwater uh but he was He was

riding on the coattails of

Kennedy's popularity and the

sympathy vote for for his

assassination by 1968. Uh it

was clear and John Johnson got

on the air on television said I

will not uh seek and I will not

accept my party's nomination

for presidency. Will that open

the door for Vice president uh

Hubert Humphrey and uh Mcgovern

or not Mcgovern Uh oh. Now, I

can't think of his name. It's

another MM name. Uh he he

surged early but then he uh he

fell back in the polls. It'll

come come to me but then also

Bobby Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy

got into the election actually

quite late. and um but when he

won California uh that was

there were enough delegates

there that it could be a race

that could be uh decided in the

convention and you know the

Kennedy's were so popular at

that point. that Kennedy

thought that he could have been

elected or or nominated because

of that but that night, he was

shot and killed and so Vice

President's um Hubert Humphrey

became the Democratic nominee

and he lost uh to Richard

Nixon. Now, Nixon came in

saying that he was going to win

the war in Vietnam and uh he

came in saying that he was

going to fight communism uh but

then interestingly uh Nixon

probably uh you know Nixon

Richard Nixon had some real

great accomplishments That's

what sadly people forget about

him and one of his greatest

accomplishments was that he uh

he met with uh Mal in China and

he reopened uh diplomatic

relations between the United

States and China. That was an

important thing. you may you

may have an enemy in Communist

China but you still want to be

keeping dialogue open with your

enemies uh to keep it from

escalating out of control and

so That was something that he

did but then his major mistake

was our next question, right?

So, yeah. as most people know,

the thing that Nixon is known

for mostly and II know for me

personally, this is the thing

that immediately when you when

you say Nixon, this is what

pops to mind foremost and I

imagine that's what most people

So, what is Watergate and how

did that or how did Watergate

contribute to the shaking of

the fabric of American society?

Well, the sad about Watergate

is that it was totally

unnecessary. Nixon was way

ahead in the polls and um so

but he was II, believe that

Richard Nixon had a mental

health issues and he was uh he

was a paranoid person. He was a

deep uh deep um introvert and

he would run for president. The

one office where you need to be

a complete extrovert is hard to

understand other than just a

huge ego but also uh a

confidence while Nixon wasn't

was uh an introvert. He was

very confident in his own

skills and so um he was way

ahead in the polls and he was

running against Mcgovern in um

6 years in in Seventy-two and

um he was way the polls and uh

then the uh there was uh a

report that Mcgovern uh vice

presidential pick uh was having

some mental health issues

himself and he ended up having

to fall out, run out, or drop

out of the race and um so there

was no reason other than

Nixon's paranoia uh to do what

they did but he hired these

criminals really. I mean they

were political criminals and

they broke I mean, talk about

dumb. It was just dumb. They

broke into the Watergate Hotel

which is still in Washington

Dc. You can go see it right

down by the Potomac River. It's

a very unique uh really

actually pretty cool modern

design building II. Think it's

a cool looking building kind of

Star Wars is but there's a

little bit of a stretch but

yeah II could see where you get

that. Yeah. so they broke into

uh into the National

Headquarters offices and

started going the files to take

uh information as if they, you

know, aren't going to notice

this somehow and of course, we

know that it was Forrest Gump

that was in the hotel, saw them

and he reported them to

security. One of the great many

accomplishments and

achievements of it was it was

like he was everywhere. All

these important places, right?

But uh yeah so uh the security

guards got wind that something

was going on and they went in

and they arrested them and at

They said, oh, they're just a

bunch of dumb burglars trying

to steal things but it became

pretty clear uh just very

quickly as they as they started

to investigate who these people

were and what their backgrounds

were that these were no petty

thieves. These were political

operatives. Well, um while

Nixon tried to cover it up and

say, oh, isn't that awful? Uh

we cannot have this kind of

thing happening in America and

they should be prosecuted to

the full extent of the law all

the while knowing that he was

the one who ordered it and we

know that now because of the

tapes and then he confessed uh

to Frost. If you ever saw the

movie Frost Nixon. um I

actually have on VHS Cassette.

the actual interviews between

Frost and President Nixon.

Yeah, because I'm I'm nerdy.

So, did you ever notice by the

way these uh drawings behind

me? they're Colonial

Williamsburg I was just going

to ask you what the what those

were because that's that's the

way I roll. I'm a history nerd,

my friend and so um so what

happened is that the White

House tried to cover it up, try

to tamp it down uh but certain

journalists uh started to dig

and especially from the

Washington post uh Woodward and

Bernstein uh from which we we

got the uh book and the present

or in the uh movie all the

president's men uh starring

Robert Redford and Dustin

Hoffman which is an absolutely

excellent uh movie but it was

just, you know, very deliberate

journalism and they were able

to find an informant that had a

very naughty name that we're

not going to mention on the the

uh nickname that they used uh

but this informant would not

tell them exactly but he would

answer yes or no questions and

so as they would dig, he would

say yes and they say, are we

going in the right direction.

No. Should we do this? Yes. And

that was how they kept little

by little pulling the

information not only out of

this informant but in their

investigation, they would go to

different people and finally,

what happened is that so much,

you know, got to uh a tipping

point where there was so much

little pieces of evidence that

it tipped and it freaked people

out and then they started

looking for immunity. They

started testifying, testifying

people were turning each other

in and pretty soon uh they

found out about this uh taping

mechanism that Richard Nixon

had in the White House and the

thing was is that you know,

Johnson had had the same system

and I think Kennedy had the

same system uh but nobody knew

about it back then but someone

testified somehow that Nixon

had these tapes well then it

was fair game and uh Congress

said well we want to hear the

tapes from this day when you

talk to this person and So,

Nixon, you know, said no. it's

executive privilege and there's

national security involved

here. You can't have them. It

went to the Supreme Court. The

Supreme Court said in regular

circumstances, we would say yes

but because you are facing what

could be and we are facing what

could be a constitutional

crisis, then you need to turn

this over and so in the end, uh

he did but there are certain

places that had been erased

again which you know, pointed

to guilt and then And then

finally, it came out that he

was, there was so much evidence

that he had been involved that

uh he reached out to his

friends in in congress to see

if there was still enough to

support to keep him from being

impeached and they finally said

no. Uh you will you will be

impeached and knowing that that

means you will probably go into

AA Criminal Trial and you will

be

convicted. So, uh Richard Nixon

in the midst of all this, uh

ironically his um vice

President Spiro Agnew who had

been governor of Maryland had

been indicted for tax fraud and

he had left uh the the vice

presidency in um you know in

disgrace. So, Nixon in the

midst of Watergate uh appointed

ironically and we were talking

about this earlier. He

appointed Harrison Ford. uh you

know, him from the uh from the

from the movie. uh you Air

Force One Air Force One. Yeah.

The President Ford. Uh well, he

became President Ford. No, not

Harrison Ford. Gerald Ford, the

congressman from Michigan and

Harrison Ford was from Indiana.

That's right, Indiana Jones and

uh and Ironically Ford was a

member of the Warren Commission

and For me, Ford is a little

bit of a slippery figure. Uh he

was a hardworking congressman.

He did work his way up from the

bottom but he was pretty close

to the assassination of Kennedy

and in his connection with the

uh Warren Commission and he was

very close. uh to Watergate

becoming president but um what

happened is that Ford pardoned

Richard Nixon which uh gave

gave him from prosecution for

any crimes during Watergate and

so for the rest of his life,

Nixon was free and um the

American people, I think said

that uh we're not okay with

that. Uh there are many people

who believe that it was

politically or as far as you

know, bringing peace to the

nation. It was a good thing but

as far as earning him his uh

own uh term as president in his

own right. The American people

rejected that and part of that

was that you had a um a it in.

Jimmy Carter, James Earl Carter

who uh was the absolute

antithesis of Richard Nixon.

You know, Nixon was was a was

very glamorous even though he

was awkward. Everything was

very glamorous with limousines

and and all the best of the

best. You know, he used to hang

out with uh the you know king

uh of England who had abdicated

the throne. What I can't

remember his name but they

called him David. Yeah. but you

I'm talking about I'm the king.

the king's speech. Yeah. His

brother abdicated the throne.

Yeah. Nixon used to hang out

with him and they would have

parties and they were glamorous

affairs and Frank Sinatra would

come in and you know, all these

all these uh very glamorous

things. Well, Jimmy Carter came

in and said, you know, let's

get back to we the people and

in many ways, that was a good

thing but I think that Jimmy

Carter took it too far and um

at that time, It's interesting

because my friend Daniel Wilbur

wrote in here uh whip inflation

now uh which was the button

that the Ford campaigners wore

WIN and uh he remembers my

debate uh in fifth grade uh

where I represented Jimmy

Carter in the debate and um

That's right. In and say, oh, I

remember that day. Anyway, um

for you you know, there was a

high inflation. This was when

OPEC was cutting uh crude

production to I gotta show the

whole audience here. He said,

you are great. Actually, I got

some things wrong and was

berated by the teacher but I

did my best for a fifth grader.

So, Daniel, please don't

inflate his ego anymore than it

already is. Well, anyway, um

inflation was going out of

control. The oil prices were

going out of control. Uh we had

lost the Vietnam War there was

that awful terrible scene of

our marines uh leaving from the

rooftop of the American Embassy

and people trying to cram into

the helicopter so they wouldn't

be killed by the communist. It

was, you know, they were

pushing uh Um they were pushing

the helicopters off of the

ships because there wasn't

enough room on the ships to

take all the people and the

helicopters and all the other

things that they were trying to

get out of Vietnam. It was it

was terribly embarrassing for

America and it was a terribly

difficult time and now Ford

pardoned Nixon and people were

like enough and so Carter came

in uh into this uh you know a

really difficult time and uh

while I have respect for him as

a person. I actually think that

Carter was one of the worst

presidents that we've ever had.

He was uh not a visionary

leader. Um he did um have a

great accomplishment with the

camp David Accords in bringing

peace between Israel and Egypt

but there were not many more

accomplishments than that. um

and part of the big problem

with Carter and we talked about